Before I cut too much... more keelson & bottom Q's

Bill E · Post by **Bill E** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:27 pm

Thanks everyone who's weighed in already on my keelson and frame replacement questions. After a little work Sunday and last night, I'm finally at the point of putting some new wood into this boat. Whereas I originally could tell that I might need to replace six frames (or possibly more), now it's clear that there are only six that DON'T need replacement for one reason or another -- the six forwardmost frames in the bow.

Here's where I stand based on previous input:

I've removed the entire length of both garboards

I've blocked the hull so that the entire sheerline is level from the transom to the stem

I've cut the bevel on the aft end of the center piece of the keelson, and I've cut the keelson to length, measuring 142" from the short side of the bevel to the forward end that mates with the notch in the stem

We had a consensus on this forum that the "sky side" of the keelson should be flat, with the "water side" of the keelson taking the taper. The keelson measures roughly 3" tall in the rear and 1-3/4" or so at the front end. My issue now is that I've set the center member of the keelson into place, and it's not parallel to the notch in the stem. The keelson is angled upwards such that there's a good 1/4" of gap between it and the stem at the forward end. See photos here:

If it's out of parallel by 1/4" in the 6" notch, then that equates to about 3" over the full length of the keelson. I guess if I mounted the keelson to the bottom tip of the transom, it'd come out just about right...

So what are your thoughts on how to correct that issue? If I clamp/bolt/pull the two pieces together, I guess it will bulge out the very front of the bow sides a little bit (and it would farther back if all those frames weren't broken). However, attempting with a small 12" Quik-Grip clamp, I couldn't even take out half of that gap. Since I'm going to be replacing that portion of the stem (gripe?) anyway, I can adjust the mating surface as needed, but I want it shaped as close to original as possible. Any ideas?

Here's an overall view of the boat now:

Thanks in advance...

-wte

Bill E · Post by **Bill E** » Wed May 28, 2008 6:49 am

Here's a quick diagram of what I'm talking about with the gap and the keelson taper:

thegammas · Post by **thegammas** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:19 am

I'm probably the least qualified on this board to comment - but of course I will!

If you are going to replace that portion of the stem/gripe where the keelson will meet, I'd suggest cutting the notch into the new stem component to match the Keelson member. Then taper the keelson to the shape you want. I would not suggest bending the new keelson to match as that would introduce tension that will eventually work itself out by way of warping, bending or cracking. Of course you could try and steam bend the keelson to match, but I think that would be tough to pull off.

Good work so far though - when I get into my bottom next off season I'll likely be pinging you for advice.

JoeCB · Post by **JoeCB** » Wed May 28, 2008 4:43 pm

Bill, great work. This is no small task you are into... when you are finished you can be real proud of your accomplishments.
Now, as to your question... Since I did not replace my stem piece, I simply cut a notch in the sky side of the new keelson to match.
My opinion in your situation... do the same, notch the keelson to suit. The end of the stem has little enough wood as it is, I sure wouldn't remove any more. Definitely do not try to spring it into position, ref Peter's comment.

Joe B

Bill E · Post by **Bill E** » Wed May 28, 2008 8:27 pm

Thanks, Peter! Funny - I guess I've leapfrogged you on the bottom work, huh? When I first bought this thing in January, I think you were anticipating doing much the same to yours in this same timeframe. I'm jealous, though - you've had yours on the water, whereas the last time I stood in this boat while afloat was nearly 4 years ago, when I met Dave Johnson (previous owner) by chance at the lake and fell in love with "his boat."

I'll be more than happy to share what I've learned along the way when you do get to this point. Hopefully there will be a record of much of it right here on the website, and there are certainly tons of photos I've taken that aren't posted here, but I'll keep in archive. If nothing else, I hope this helps you & others anticipate and think through some of the issues you may face before you ever get there.

I've spoken with John Platou by phone today, and - again - there seems to be an emerging consensus: just make the keel straight to where it needs to be at the merger with the stem. With Joe's input now as well, I think I'll adjust the existing stem to fit, then replace as much of the stem as is needed. For now, that will mean shaving out a wedge of the stem at the notch so that it will receive the keelson in a relatively tight joint (perfection not needed if it's to be replaced anyway). When I replace that portion of the stem, I can add as much wood to the top as I need to, alleviating the issue Joe brings up about it being a little skimpy.

As long as I'm replacing these parts, however, I am interested in keeping the keelson "full height" (~3") for more of its full length, rather than tapering it down so much toward the front. Seems this would help stiffen & strengthen the bottom a lot and help prevent it from going serpentine up & down like the original has done. I know I'd be adding just a few pounds, but I think correcting original weaknesses would be worth the extra weight.

-wte

thegammas · Post by **thegammas** » Thu May 29, 2008 4:39 am

I seem to recall reading in one of Dannenberg's books that you should leave a steam bent piece of stock fastened in place for at least a day to minimize spring back. As for my having been on the water already, well when I get into my bottom I'll be repeating a fair bit of the work I will have done in the name of preservation. But, so be it!!!

Keep the faith, when you are done, and it's on the water under power for the first time, I can only imagine how awesome that'll feel.

Bill E · Post by **Bill E** » Thu May 29, 2008 5:47 am

Peter -

Yeah, that one day thing rings a bell. I guess I'll be making a few more bending frames if I can only do one boat frame per day! On that last photo with the over-bend, I decided to bring it inside the house to cool & to dry so that I could see if that helped any. It may have, but what also "helped" is that it had cracked slightly in the sharpest point of the curve, which I'm sure eliminated a bit of springback. Oh, well....

I can only imagine how long it'll take to wipe the smile off my face when I first baptize this baby.

-wte