More hull shape questions

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Bill E
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:02 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA USA

More hull shape questions

Post by Bill E »

I've come a long way since last posting anything about my '57 Sea Lancer restoration. Andreas - congrats on being published with yours! I've gotten the garboards mostly off, though I cut them in half about 2' short of the front end. I'm replacing them anyway, and this helps hold the bow shape a little better. I've also removed the entire floor frame assembly (sister keelsons and "floors" holding them together. Tonight I finally took out the keelson. I have the new oak ready to build the new one, but I'm a little stumped.

It's amazing how much rot there was throughout this boat at and below the waterline. It had essentially been held together by the planking. I think I will now be replacing EVERY frame from the transom almost to the stem. Those nearest the stem (2-3 frames) may just get new tails scarfed in. Almost all of the rest are rotten/cracked/missing/compromised from the turn of the bilge to the keelson. Most of the frames that land on the stem are okay. Photos (coming soon) will tell all.

Looking at the keelson lying across a couple of sawhorses now, it has a huge "S" curve to it. From earlier discussions both here and on the phone, I'm pretty sure the keelson should be dead flat on the bottom side from the tip of the stem all the way back to the transom. That puts the taper (reduction in height) on the top face of the keelson, right? Otherwise, if the top of the keelson is supposed to be flat, then I need to take the taper from the underside. I can measure the old one to determine the original height at various stations along its length; I just don't know where the reference line should lie!

Also, what about the sister keelsons, AKA stringers? They have quite a crown, running fore & aft. The center portion is fairly flat, but the rear 2' or so drops about 1/2", starting where the aluminum transom brackets attached, and the forward 3' or so drops something like 1.5"! I think I posted photos of this earlier. The rear I understand due to the weight of the outboard pulling up on the stringers via the brackets. What I'm not sure of is whether the taper on the front end of the sister keelsons occurs only on the bottom of those members, with the top (supposed to be) flat, or if the top face was shaped such that it curved downward toward the front. This is really the same question that I had for the keelson, but with the opposite assumption.

Putting a long straightedge on the underside of the floors (cross-members between the sister keelsons), the rear three are very much inline. The front one is lower by about 3/8 - 1/2". This pretty much follows the serpentine flow of the bowed keelson/hogged keel. I just want to know what it SHOULD be as I replace all these longitudinals.

Any advice is welcome! Measurements and/or comparisons to your own boats is even more welcome. :)

-wte

PS - I'm thinking of gluing/epoxying my new keelson into one monolithic timber with screw reinforcement. Three reasons: (1) there's so much rot from water that has gotten between the boards that I'd like to eliminate those cracks, even if they're bedded together, (2) if anyone ever takes this boat apart again to this extent (in 2059?) to replace part of the keelson, I don't think it's going to be too much more work for them to replace the entire thing, and (3) if any one part of it's rotten, it probably all needs to be replaced again anyway. Your thoughts? (I know I've heard of oak/epoxy issues, esp. in salt water...)
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Bill Eason
Atlanta, GA
john
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Post by john »

Bill

My best thought is top (sky side) of inner keel, and stringer were in the begining straight, and over time took a set. Mine were put back with top straight.

Call me any time.

John
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JoeCB
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Location: Farmington Hills , MI

Post by JoeCB »

Bill, I believe that John is correct. The floor is flat from side to side and front to back, so you should be able to pick up reference points around the perimeter from the where the floor decking butted up to the ribs. The entire floor support system should come up to the plane defined by those reference points.
Joe B
LancerBoy
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Location: Minneapolis

Post by LancerBoy »

Yup, I agree. Keelson and stringers should be flat on the skyward side, as John says. I have my '57 Sea Lancer (Peshtigo) torn apart right now. I looked her over and the top sides of keelson and stringers sure look flat. I didn't do any measurments or put a level on things, but visually these items look flat on the skyward side.

Just got new deck and gunwale covering boards installed. Need to do a bit more finish sanding than it's staining time.

Andreas in COLD Minneapolis (NO snow today - but it's 40 F)
John Hart
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:26 pm

Post by John Hart »

Andreas... I thought you had posted previously that all of your Sea Lancers had a side to side crown.... doesn't that mean that the outboard stringers are at a lower elevation that the keel?

I had noticed a slight crown in my Seacoaster, and was not ever quite sure whether that was a sagging situation or a factory designed crown, to drain to the bilge....

John.
LancerBoy
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Location: Minneapolis

Post by LancerBoy »

In my previous post I mentioned the front to back "flatness" of keelson and stringers.

Yes, there is a slight crown side to side of the floor boards.

The top of the stringers are actually at a higher elevation than the top of the keelson.

Andreas
Bill E
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Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:02 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA USA

Post by Bill E »

Guys --- thanks for the replies! In case you were wondering why I was asking, here are a couple of photos of my old keelson lying on its side, removed from the boat with one "cheek" also removed. That's my 8' long, 2"x2" aluminum angle that I use as a straightedge. Using the old keelson as a reference, I would have guessed that the bottom edge was originally straight, not the sky side. BTW, that's the new one in progress on the left.

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And another for good measure... here's the boat with floor framing dropped out and keelson removed. All previously patched frames have been "unpatched" (spliced parts removed), and other frames simply rotted out. Looks like I'll be replacing most of them. If I have to replace through the bend, I figure I might as well replace the whole thing.

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-wte
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Bill Eason
Atlanta, GA
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