Keel bolt holes filler?

brian62 · Post by **brian62** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:07 am

Did Cortland built boats fill the bolt holes of the keel with lead?I was probing the keel (before i flip the boat) to see what i may need and i noticed a few bumps so i picked at them and it looks like lead.Its not rotted bolt heads because the pieces are wider than the bolts and were spread onto the keel.I dont believe this boats ever been flipped over before so im just a wonderin..Thank you..

LancerBoy · Post by **LancerBoy** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:42 am

I cannot imagine the factory putting molten lead into holes. They used a putty filler which almost for sure contained white lead. I can't tell you much about white lead but it was used commonly in boat production as a filler.

Andreas

Torchie · Post by **Torchie** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:49 am

On the Peshtigo boats the keel is held on with a combination of Brass carriage head bolts and Brass slotted head screws.
Not knowing Cortland built boats could it be that the "bumps" that you are picking at are the Carriage head bolts. The brass would seem softer that steel bolts and maybe that is why you are thinking it is lead.
Just my thoughts.
Karl.

W Guy · Post by **W Guy** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:54 pm

Torchie wrote:On the Peshtigo boats the keel is held on with a combination of Brass carriage head bolts and Brass slotted head screws.
Not knowing Cortland built boats could it be that the "bumps" that you are picking at are the Carriage head bolts. The brass would seem softer that steel bolts and maybe that is why you are thinking it is lead.
Just my thoughts.
Karl.

I will be removing the keel from my '60 Peshtigo Sea Coaster. Can someone give me a guided tour of where I'll find those carriage bolts vs the screws? Do they alternate, are one kind forward and the other aft? Screws can be pulled from the bottom. Carriage bolts require inside access. I need to know where the carriage bolts are so I can plan where (if any) places I'll have to remove the floors.

thanks
Verne

Torchie · Post by **Torchie** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:55 pm

Vern
If you search back thru the restoration topics you will find a pictorial in regards to pulling the keel.
Mine was held on by a combination of carriage head brass bolts and sloted brass screws.
Bolts were about every two feet with the screws in between.
You will have to remove your flooring to access the nuts that hold the bolts in place. Screws are removed from the outside and they should be covered with putty so you may have to search for them.
I had to tap the bolts up to be able to use channel locks to pull the bolts thru.
Once all the fasteners are removed the keel will come right off.
Hope this helps.
Karl.

brian62 · Post by **brian62** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:23 am

this stuff was spread out from the bolt hole and onto the keel just like you would spread an epoxy or caulking but it is not soft at all and it almost looks like a cast metal of some sort.Must be some thing the former owner did.I was just curious more than any thing..Thank you folks..

LancerBoy · Post by **LancerBoy** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:34 am

On all of the Thompson of Peshtigo boats that I have worked upon, there are only two carriage bolts. Both are at either side of the junction of outer keel and outer stem - towards the bow of the boat. Screws only from that point towards the stern.

Remove the floor boards in front of the front seat. You will see the heads of the carriage bolts with washer and nut. You must remove the nut to get the carriage bolt out.

You must sand off the paint on the bottom side of the keel and stem to find the locations of the fasteners. They will be countersunk into the wood and covered with putty filler. Dig out the filler and you will reveal the truth.

Andreas

thegammas · Post by **thegammas** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:38 am

Brain,
When I was Cleaning up the bottom of my Courtland boat, I found the carrage bolt holes to be filled with a stiff putty like subtance which i assume was the white lead based filler Andreas referenced above. Thing about these boats is, given their age, who knows what may have been done to the boat in the past. If you need/want to get the keel off, I'd not worry so much about what is covering the bolts/screws, just take it out being careful not to damage the wood to much. When you put it all back togheter you will be using a different fill anyway

(NOTE: These boats were built when lead paint and lead based fillers were the standard, so when you are sanding, prying, etc , any thing that creats dust, wear a good dust mask,not just the paper ones)

W Guy · Post by **W Guy** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:54 pm

Peter, That's very good advice about the respirator. And thank you again Andreas for guiding me to those nuts on the carriage bolts. Thank God I don't have to remove the entire flooring!!!

Or maybe I will remove them. There could be a few good old fishing lures down there

Or at least, I could clean out the water drain holes in those (what-ever-you-call-them) pieces that meet the inner keel.

Thanks
Verne

brian62 · Post by **brian62** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:45 pm

Thanks peter,i was more curious than anything.As i have gone thru this restoration project i have found lots of things that i dont understand and why they did certain things.and i enjoy learning about the old ways of doing things.I am amazed at some of the factory mistakes that i found like slight misses when screwing boards together and they still held strong for 51 years. i found temporary shims left in with spilled original floor paint on them and paint on the ribs under the floor.I found a small hand tool under a rib with what looks like original stain on it and i found a 1959 penny in the bilge area.Just little things that can take you back in time i find interesting.The more i work on this boat the less complicated it becomes and the more craftsmanship i see.Im glad i went with this old boat.Thank you for your advice and opinions they are very helpful...Brian62

LancerBoy · Post by **LancerBoy** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:59 am

I highly recommened always to remove the floor boards. How else will you inspect the keelson, stringers, ribs, planking? This is an extremely IMPORTANT first step in any restoration and refinishing. Forget about strip stain and varnish of the windshield frame until you make certain the boat is not rotten to the core under the floor.

Andreas