pays to shop

jim hays · Post by **jim hays** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:16 am

I just ordered my cpes (Smiths) Im waiting for it to arrive to continue. When I ordered it I happened to mention the cost of 3M5200 and that it only comes in two colors white and grey (I assume its all I see advertised) anyway I checked West marine 19.00 a tube, Boaters World 17.00 tube and did I get a pleseant suprise when the individual I ordered my cpes from stated, try Home depot I did 10.00 tube same size same, and product to the letter. I would guess it would be in the same area on price at lowes if they stock it. Now if we could just get the price of cpes to what I would consider a little more reasonable. 158.00 plus shipping for 2 gal (oh well cant take with you). While Im at it could you experts tell me by chance how thick and how wide the bedding should be for my new transom, 16ft Sea Coaster. 1-3/4 inches wide and getting heaver each time I put it in and adjust for the fit. Would like to keep the overflow out the back of the boat to a minnium. Oh by the way whomever cleand up the spamers you have my many,many thanks. Jim Hays

mengelmar · Post by **mengelmar** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:44 pm

Jim-

Thanks for the heads up on the good deal on 5200! With regards to cpes, in the future consider making your own by thinning regular epoxy yourself using xylene. You can customize the visocosity for whatever your application by varying the amount of solvent and do it all for a whole lot cheaper. I've been doing this using west systems as the base for my last couple boats with great success.

Rodney Syverson · Post by **Rodney Syverson** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:47 am

CPES appears to be a great product. From what I can tell it does everything they advertise. I am not a chemist and I do not understand what the chemical makeup of either epoxies. What I am is an auto body repairman and have worked for 30 some years with paints and liquid products. I have explored epoxy over polyester resins used in the homebuilt aircraft field and have a little bit of understanding of applications and qualities. One thing I do know is that when a product is designed for a specific application it should be used primarily for that application. Any experimenting outside of that scope is experimental. Over the years I have had people ask us to use different products that are cheaper than Name Brand products. We have at times tried and in the short term they appear to be favorable but over the long term they would not stand up to the test of time. I discovered a long time ago that when I did a repair which involved significant labor to do initially and even more labor to do over it was totally counterproductive to try save a few bucks on product. I feel that if I am going to invest huge amounts of time towards a project that I want to last and stand up to the test of time, then I will use the best available product money can buy. Go ask your local body man if he thinks $160.00 for two gallons of product is expensive. He will laugh and no doubt inform you (if he is a reputable body man or refinisher) of the $300-$400 per gallon he is paying for simply putting a finish on your vehicle. My 2 cents. Rod Syverson

jim hays · Post by **jim hays** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:21 pm

Rod you missed the whole point, at no time did I say anything about a cheaper brand. I mearly stated that someone else had it at a cheaper price, which I will buy, the old ss check doesnt go as far as it did after regan got the changes he wanted, good actor but nothing else. Just remember your 2 cents worth the next time you look for a cheaper gas station to fill up your vehicle whole dofferent story! Anyway enough is enough, Just got my cpes, back to the shop to put ot on so I can wait a week to put my transom in and go on to the next part of the project getting the boat turned over and finishing removing the paint. dthen really put on the ceps. remember to keep it above the water. Jim

Rodney Syverson · Post by **Rodney Syverson** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:31 pm

Jim;
Apologize for not clarifying my comments better. I appreciate the heads up on a cheaper source of 5200. These are the things that make this website great. Its always great to be able to find a better price for the exact same product by shopping around. I have done the same for different things from all the marine supply catalogs and you would be surprised as to the difference in price for the exact same item from one catalog to the next.
My comments however were addressing the issue of the high cost of CPES and consideration of substitutes. From my experience I feel one needs to be careful about selection of products for any laborious undertaking. I simply believe that if a person expends huge amounts of time and labor such as done on the restorations of these boats then I feel you owe it to yourself to use the best product for the job to get the best performance in the long run.
Good Luck on your project and be careful with that CPES. I had a nasty experience with it by not ventilating the hull with a fan while I applied it to the inside of my hull.
Rod Syverson
PS. As far as the thickness and width of bedding your transom to the hull I run 3-4 beads about 1/4" on both the transom and the hull and used a plastic spreader to level completely. I tried to maintain a uniform film about a 1/16" thick on both surfaces the full width of the transom and same width on the hull. Then secured with screws and of course the excess oozed out to which I removed the bulk with scraps of wood and a final clean up with a thinner or alcohol.

mengelmar · Post by **mengelmar** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:58 pm

Well, regarding whether cpes is the end all and be all in miracle products all I can say is that from my own experiences I have had much better results thinning west systems to fit whatever the application. In my experience CPES has WAY too much solvent in it for most uses. The more solvent, the greater the penetration, but the lower the strength and the moisture resistance. CPES is 60 to 70 percent solvent which is why some people have almost passed out using it inside a hull. All the solvent lets it penetrate pretty well but seriously compromises the water resistance of the epoxy. I've never had to thin more than 40 percent to get great penetration on new wood.

Check out this site for more on thinning epoxy as well as some demonstrations of how varying solvent concentrations affect water resistance, penetration, and strength.
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/penetrating4u.html
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/woodseal.html#oct27

a j r · Post by **a j r** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:02 am

There is NO such thing as a miracle product. CPES is a sealer, plain and simple. I use it.

Andreas

John Hart · Post by **John Hart** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:30 am

If I remember correctly, there are some posts on the Woodenboat forum, that describe whether thinned 'regular' epoxy is a worthy substitute for CPES...