Restoring/replacing mahogany veneer?

hondaguy · Post by **hondaguy** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:04 am

Hi, i have a 1964 Sea Coaster deluxe, and have begun stripping it down to restore it. The whole deck/railing/top side board is made of the veneered plywood. We have removed all the vinyl that was covering it (sad shape). Rather than recovering it we would like to stain it to get it that deep red rich mahogany color, but i have a few questions first.

I have read a tutorial on restoring wood boats and it says to sand it all down with 80 grit then 120 then stain, but ithink they are takning about plank. Does this seem a little too rough for veneer? What grit should i use?

There are 2 places with rot, the outside of the right windshield frame where it meets the rail/side, and the rear 16" by 12" next to the transom. They are not very structural, would it be okay to just re-veneer them?

Where can i find replacement veneer, is it okay to use the stuff for cabinets, as long as i seal and varnish it? Do i really need 14 coats of varnish (as the tutorial suggested)?

Are the 3 planks at the front of the boat (trim) teak or mahogany?

Lastly, this boat has a spotlight on the front that you can turn by a knob on the dash, is this stock?

Sorry for all the questions, but we would like to do this right.

txcaptdan · Post by **txcaptdan** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:37 am

your plywood deck that was under vinyl is probably fir marine plywood and is not mahogany. If you want a mahogany finish and have bad places in plwood then I would lean to removing all plwood decks and replacing with a mahogany surfaced marine plywood. Sand surface until you can see bunged screws, usually filler, dig out filler until screw head is visible then remove screws. Most of the time the decks will pop right off. Save all pieces coming off to use as patterns. I would shy away from glueing veneer onto an old plwood deck.
You will have to look locally for a source for mahogany plywood.
Other choice is to repair bad places and re cover with vinyl.
Good Luck

hondaguy · Post by **hondaguy** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:27 pm

Hi, thanks for the reply, i read it a few times in the archives of these forums that they were indeed mahogany... is there a sure way to tell? Maybe some chemical that changes colors like metallurgists use to identify metals?

As i said, i would just like to replace the veneer, i think glueing new veneer wouold work fine. I probably wasn't clear enough in the decription. The rotted sections are both about 2" long by 1/2" wide, so i think if i were to just fill it in, there should be enough surface to adhere to.

I found a place that sells genuine mahogany plank (rough) for $200 for 26 feet, 9" wide, 1" thick. Is this reasonable (and how much would a whole deck take)? Would still like to refinish the plywood, but a new deck is still an option.

Thanks

txcaptdan · Post by **txcaptdan** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:29 pm

You may have mahogany ply, but after it has been glued for vinyl and the screw holes were filled with filler not bunged with plugs, you will have a pretty rough surface to try and stain and varnish.
I dont think you want to plank deck unless you have a plywood substrate.
I had a 62 Cruisers that we planked the decks by epoxying 1-1/4" wide strips of 1/4" mahogany on plywood decks, leaving about 3/16" gap between strips. We got a 1-1/4 thick plank and cut 1/4" strips off it.
We buttered one side with epoxy and laid then down by hand, we used fat flat head screws, screwed into gaps between strips to act as clamps until epoxy set then removed them.
Sand, stain, and varnish - then tape off and fill seams with white 101 caulk.
You could probably do that right over your existing decks after minor repairs.
lots of options.

hondaguy · Post by **hondaguy** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:13 pm

thanks for all the help, planking with thin strips as you said sounds like the best option so far, however, i have found a place that sells true mahogany veneer for $80 for a 4 x 8 sheet that is .020" thick. It's pretty thin, but says it is easily stained. Is this the easy way out? Will i find any problems with veneering the whole top then finishing it as if it were plank?

Thanks again for all the help

a j r · Post by **a j r** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:24 am

Greetings,

This 1964 Thompson Sea Coaster Deluxe would have been standard with vinyl covering on decks and gunwale covering boards. The plywood under the vinyl is Douglas fir, not mahogany.

Have you checked under the floor boards for decay and cracks/splits in the keelson and ribs? This is your first order of business. Forget about refinishing work until you know that any structural problems are addressed.

If you want originality, either put new vinyl on her or use stained and varnished mahogany plywood at the decks. Stain and varnish was an factory option vs. the vinyl. Don't use strip planking with caulked seams. It's your boat however, and you can do whatever you desire. The new plywood would be less work that strip planking in my opinion.

The spot light was not a standard factory item, probably after market. The wood utilized for trim is philepean mahoagny. No teak in these boats.

By the way, what is the hull ID and serial number of this boat? The hull ID is stamped into the wood of the transom inside the boat and the serial number is on a little metal tag that says "Serial No." They are two different IDs'. I am keeping a database.

Andreas

a j r · Post by **a j r** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:26 am

I should add, maybe you should purchase the Thompson Boat Cataalog CD-ROM and review what these boats looked like when new. It is a good investment.

It can be obtained form Dan Miller at www.dragonflycanoe.com

Andreas

mengelmar · Post by **mengelmar** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:19 am

Faux planking can be done as Capt. Dan suggested. I experimented with a different method on my recent SeaLancer project. I epoxied mahogony faced plywood on top of the new plywood deck and then used a circular saw with the blade set very shallow to score seams. After sealing with cpes and staining to match the rest of the wood I then caulked the seams, cleaned it all up and varnished. Here is a pic of the finished deck.

Phill Blank · Post by **Phill Blank** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:20 am

I guess it all depends on weather you are a purest or not as to what you do to you boats. I myself look at restoring a boat back to as close to original as I can get them as I know many of use try to do. Modifying a boat is up to the individual owner. I personally like to see a restoration of a boat, car, plane or what have you, back to what was the original specs, design and features when ever possible. That is why it is called retoration.
I would be one to either re-vinyl the decks after repairing/ replacing the bad veneer or totally stripping off the existing veneer and replacing with 1/4" mahogany marine grade plywood and stain and varnish.
Like Andreas says, I would be sure that the rest of the boat was in A-1 shape before doing the refinishing of the deck. Make sure you have a sound craft under your feet before putting the frosting on the cake.
Good Luck!

mengelmar · Post by **mengelmar** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:16 am

Phill Blank wrote: ...Modifying a boat is up to the individual owner. I personally like to see a restoration of a boat, car, plane or what have you, back to what was the original specs, design and features when ever possible. That is why it is called retoration.

Well said Phil, and pretty diplomatic too! The differences in how we as owners approach repairs (restore vs. refit or refurbish) is a very interesting topic. I'm starting a new poll/thread in the misc. section on the issue.

a j r · Post by **a j r** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:05 pm

I like to see them restored to what they originally were. Modifications that are age appropriate, such as placing an appropriate spot lite on the deck, are OK in my opinion. But I really don't like to see changes. This is MY opinion and should not be construed as gospel!

Andreas

hondaguy · Post by **hondaguy** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:15 pm

Hi, thanks for all the help, this site is great. The boat is almost completely stripped down right now, and have found no structural rot or cracks whatsoever, it is in amazingly good shape. The original owner actually owned until about 4 months ago. I bought it from a guy who bought it for the outboard that was on it (i've got $300 in the boat and trailer) I agree that some things should be restored to their original glory rather than be modified. I'd love to do a concours restoration on it, but just don't have the time (or skill for that matter). The guy i bought it from was actually going to burn it and then pick up the brass bolts and turn them in for scrap, so i figure anything i do to it is an imoprovement.

I think i have come to the conclusion to buy the thin wood veneer in $80 sheets, then cut it into plank widths, and glue them on, then stain and seal of course. I would like a nice looking boat, but am not expecting perfect, I'm going to use it probably 3 weekends a month.

Also, to the fellow tha tposted the picture of his boat, that is simply beautiful and i would like to have a stain similar to the one on your dash (darker one), and was thinking about staining the windshield frame and 3 mahogany plamnks on the bow the tone of the middle of your dash. Care to share where you got the stain and type?

I will try to get the serial number in a few days, it is not at my house at the moment. Thanks again

mengelmar · Post by **mengelmar** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:11 pm

hondaguy pm sent re:stain

hondaguy · Post by **hondaguy** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:47 pm

mengelmar, thanks a lot for the quick reply. I am probably going to go to the paint store tomorrow and hopefully buy some sample minwax stains to try on some mahogany.

I still had a few more questions. Is the finishing process as follows: sand with 120 grit, stain (rub on/off or brush?), seal (1 coat?), varnish - sand between coats (14 coats?) . 14 coats seems a little extensive to me...

I'm not sure how to post pictures on here but here is a link to the auction (i ended up trading a 3-wheeler for it).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... AMEWA%3AIT

Thanks again

a j r · Post by **a j r** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:41 am

sand, stain, let dry for a few days, seal, 25% varnish 75% thinner, 50-50 varnish-thinner, 75% varnish 25% thinner, 100% varnish. As many coats of 100% varnish as you care to put on. Start sanding between coats at about the 75%varnish-25% thinner. The more coats the deeper, richer she will look.

Depending upon the type of varnish you use and your atmospheric conditions, it may be at least one day between each coat.

Andreas