1962 Grady White Pamlico

[HalcyonDays]

1962

[HalcyonDays]

Question about the "stem?".

I am in the process of stripping the hull and I have noticed the previous owner has piled on the caulk(door & window I think) around the keel and stem (I am calling the timber that meets the keel at the bow the stem, correct me if I am wrong). Anyway, I can remove the caulk and paint and I am finding the keel in good condition. I can see how I will be able to remove the keel once I finish stripping. The question is do I want to remove the stem or repair in place. Both the keel and stem are structually sound but both need to be addressed to prevent leaking. Thanks

[LancerBoy]

Yes, the curvy thing at the bow is called the stem. I suggest removing it. Clean up under it, reseal, prime paint, caulk, paint, etc... Same drill as with the keel.

Andreas

[HalcyonDays]

CPES APPLICATION:

I have stripped the bottom and ordered the 2 quart kit of CPES from Jamestown Distributors. The person I spoke with at Jamestown made a point to say that it had a very high flash point and not to apply it inside a garage attached to a house. Move the boat outside to apply. Has anyone had experience with this; what method did you use. I guessed as to how much to purchase. For a 16 1/2 foot boat does anyone know the quantity to use?[/b]

[LancerBoy]

I don't know anything about flash point of Smith's CPES. However, make absolutely certain you have a filtered respirator on your face when working with this nasty stuff. Wear gloves and long sleave shirt and long pants. Also wear eye proection.

Outside is the best place to apply this stuff. Your neighbors will come over wondering what the heck that nasty smell is!
I just use cheapo paint brushes to apply it.

Read the directions very carefully.

Andreas

[HalcyonDays]

I removed the keel today and.... I am not sure if I did it when removing the screws(don't think so) or if they were already broken, but of the twenty-one 3" screws holding it on all but five where broken. A couple were missing the last 1/2" a couple were missing 1 1/4" and the rest were somwhere in between. The keel itself was in good condition the wood under the keel was good. There is about a 3/16" gap between the two bottom garboards that is somewhat filled with old caulk or seem compound, looks like it should be cleaned out. The stem needs to come off next, but before I did this I have a couple of questions:

1. The stem looks like it is made up of three pieces that are nicely laced together and srewed in place. Is this normal? Little afraid that when I go to take it off I will end up in a mess.

2. When replacing the keel should I drill out the bad screws and use larger screew(Dia.) or should I fill holes and redrill to use the same size screws? I will be coating with CPES first.

3. Finally, should I use seem compound or 4200 under the keel.

Thanks for any help.

[txcaptdan]

I would make a new keel cap and redrill in different places than original and use new hardware. The keel itself is fairly straight forward stick of oak, any good wood shop could replicate it easily. Seal, rechaulk seam and rebed cap.

I have avoided removing the stem on both of my boats as they were tight and in hardware in good shape. I was more concerned about below water line.

[HalcyonDays]

That sounds like a good idea. Although part of the stem is below the water line I can see where things could go wrong. What type of caulk and bedding do you use?

[LancerBoy]

I would clean out all the old gunk at the joint between the gardboard planks. Sand it clean. Refasten the screws from plywood into ribs and keelson. Try to get all the bits of old broken screws out (from keel). CPES everything. Bung the old screw holes from the keel.

If you will resue the existing keel, I'd clean it up and sand it, bung all the old screw holes, CPES it, prime paint it. All this before reattaching it.

I would use similar size and type screws to reattach the keel. I'd drill new lead-pilot holes at a location different from the original holes.

Yes, caulk under the keel before reattaching it. use a flexible marine caulk. Do not use an adhesive such as 3M4200 or 5200. Back butter the underside of the keel before you attach it. Once screwed in place, wipe off all the excess that ooozed out. Use your finger and make a nice fillet.

I don't know what Grady-White used for the outer stem. Is it a single piece of steam bent out or is it laminated? Either is OK.

Andreas

[John Hart]

FYI, I am not sure how much area you plan to do in the near term, but your half gallon of CPES won't go too far... it is essentially the consistency of water, and it disappears immediately... which is good, as that means it is wicking it's way into the wood.

I believe that I used about a gallon and a half on the interior of my 16'... I only did the area below the floor. I applied it heavily, and then reapplied about four days later. I would say you will need at least a gallon for the underside area/keel on your flipped boat.

I did mine in the garage, but had the door up, and a fan setting in the boat to keep circulation going.... also had a 3M organic vapor type mask.

I don't mind the smell... it is a little like bananas.... I have used it on the boat in many places, a birdhouse, deck boards, window frames and so forth... (and as a primer for coating adhesion)

I felt like I was getting ready to clean up toxic waste the first time I used it, and was pretty nervous, but the only time I thought I was at risk was doing under the bow behind the dash, when the air exchange wasn't as good. I think I got maybe a little light headed.

However, I have heard that with repeated epoxy use, it may not affect you until a certain point, and then you can't work with it at all.... I don't know if it is true or not... I have used all of Smith's epoxies, and they don't seem any more risky than paint strippers and such.

[HalcyonDays]

Again, thanks for the advice. The stem looks to be made of three pieces approx. 1 1/2' long and are laced together(step cut) and where this step cut or lacing occures there are slotted screws. The rest of the stem used phillips head screws. Also there is a bolt where the outer keel meets the stem and then a second bolt further up toward the bow. This all looks fairly original but it is very difficult to tell. My concern is that if 16 out of twenty one screw broke when removing the outer keel what chance do I have here? It is too bad because this is very much below the water line.

[John Hart]

I forgot to mention that I use disposable vinyl gloves, safety glasses, and other protection when applying CPES. I believe that it can be absorbed through the skin, so it is a good idea, as Andreas mentioned, to wear a long sleeved skirt.

It is not advisable to use Smith's epoxy solvent to clean off any that does get on your skin, but I have found that Goop hand cleaner works pretty well.

[HalcyonDays]

Is CPES something that I can stop and start; or sould I order the gallon now? It takes a couple of day to ship to Maine from Mass.

[John Hart]

You can do multiple applications of CPES.... and it has a long shelf life, so whatever you don't use on the outside, you can use elsewhere.

Personally, I think that it is better to put the heaviest aplication first so it penetrates and wicks as far as possible, but I don't have any data that supports that. Another way to look at it, is that as long as the wood absorbs the material, then it is going somewhere and will cure to a hard but slightly flexible substance....

By the way, when I am ready to put the first coat of hull paint, or varnish, I apply a light coat of CPES, and then the paint/varnish 24 hrs later... I believe this helps the coatings stick to the surface.

[HalcyonDays]

I would like to thank everyone for their guidance during this project. Everything seem so simple when I first envisioned doing the work, anyway I am still having fun. I think I have the outer keel figured out and I am not going to remove the stem.

Next problem is the transom. I liked the idea of removing the screws and using larger ones. Two problems 1.) some of the screws are not screws but brass or copper nails, 2.) how do I avoid breaking the screw off?

Any thoughts on digging the nails out without making a mess of the wood around the nails? What happens if I break the screws off while trying to remove? re drill? move over? There is not a lot of room or wood left where these screws and nails are located.


Thanks