After a year of distractions at work I am finally getting started on my Thompson Restoration. It is a 17' 1960 Sea Coaster. About 8 months ago I had planned on pulling out the back seat and floor to get some info for AJR on his 1959 restoration. Well AJR has finished (and sold I think)that boat and I am just finally getting around to doing my initial survey. Today I pulled the back seat and pulled up the center section of floor to see what I am up against. My first suprise is there is water in the bottom. The bilge is bone dry and the boat has not been in the water for about 8 months and has be garage kept. That means there was a ton of water. I will shop vac that out this evening. The next suprise is the all of the ribs have been cut back several inches on either side of the keel and have been replaced. They appear to be butt joints not scarfs and they do not appear to be joined in any way. The rest of the framing appears to be newer oak and has been screwed and what appears to be caulk (5200?) I am very concerned about the nature of the previous repair. I have posted pictures at the following link.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/BrowsePhoto ... derid=2007
Any thoughts? I was releaved that the rest of the framing was in good shape but I am concerned about the ribs. Thanks
Trey
Finally Gettting Started And Trouble Already.
Moderators: a j r, TDockside, Miles, Moderators
Link has been fixed for pictures
It was pointed out that the link required a password to sign in. The link below should allow you to click on the view slide show. My main question how big of an issue is this and how does one slide a new rib in and how does one bend them? Thanks for your help.
Trey
http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandin ... share&Ux=0
Trey
http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandin ... share&Ux=0
Hi Trey, Is this a Sea Lancer? Yup, I finished and sold the '59 Sea Lancer I was working upon.
Obviously the bilge is not bone dry if there is water in it.
You need to get rid of those short rib repairs. And what is that on top of the keelson? That should be removed to figure out what may be going on under it.
You need to have a proper glued scarf joint on the ribs if that is how you will be repairing them. Those butt joints are worthless. And you must stagger the joints, they cannot all be in the same general area.
Take up all the floor boards to make a complete survey of the keelson, sister keelsons (stringers), ribs, and floor framing.
The previous repairs certainly do not appear to be properly executed. I think you should remove those repairs and start fresh.
Andreas
Obviously the bilge is not bone dry if there is water in it.
You need to get rid of those short rib repairs. And what is that on top of the keelson? That should be removed to figure out what may be going on under it.
You need to have a proper glued scarf joint on the ribs if that is how you will be repairing them. Those butt joints are worthless. And you must stagger the joints, they cannot all be in the same general area.
Take up all the floor boards to make a complete survey of the keelson, sister keelsons (stringers), ribs, and floor framing.
The previous repairs certainly do not appear to be properly executed. I think you should remove those repairs and start fresh.
Andreas
Does this boat must have a fiberglass bottom? I would suspect it has had the keel glassed for the hull to be holding water this long.
Someone has done some very poor repairs and is hiding some serious problems with that cap on the keelsons.
Andreas is correct those rib repairs are useless, a sistered rib that runs from under keelson to under sister keelson along side of original rib would be the minimum. But I would suspect major problems with keelson.
The movement in the bottom sheets that those types of repairs will allow will eventually open scarf joints in the bottom.
A major disasembly for inspection is in order.
Good Luck
Someone has done some very poor repairs and is hiding some serious problems with that cap on the keelsons.
Andreas is correct those rib repairs are useless, a sistered rib that runs from under keelson to under sister keelson along side of original rib would be the minimum. But I would suspect major problems with keelson.
The movement in the bottom sheets that those types of repairs will allow will eventually open scarf joints in the bottom.
A major disasembly for inspection is in order.
Good Luck
Dan Stober
1965 20' Cruisers Inc. 570 Seacamper
1962 20' Cruisers Inc. 502
1963 16' Cruisers Inc. 202 Seafarer
Weatherford, Texas
That's what I thought but I was a little shocked by what I found and needed a reality check. Thanks guys. While this is surely going to be more work that I intended I certainly plan to go about the repairs to in proper fashion and do not plan to cut any corners. It took 40 years to get the boat in this condition so I should expect it should take some time to get it back to its prime.
I am going to try to clean up the section I have pulled to see if it has been glassed and poke around a little more. It is pretty easy to see why I was having handling issues at more that 1/2 throttle. I am lucky I didn't hit a wave an take this girl to the bottom. I can't believe the last owner used this boat on Lake Michigan.
I just placed an order for Don Danenberg's second book which appears to cover bend ribs. Any advice on how to get the replacement ribs in and to match the existing? Is there a way to slide the new rib in next to the existing to get the right profile and then when it cools remove the old and slide the new one over and fasten?
I will send more pictures and info as I get rolling. Before I can go much further I need to take the motor off and put her on a dolly so I can manuever her around my shop. Right now the prop touches the back wall of my shop and the tongue of the trailer is 2" from the door so I need to sneak under the bow and over the tongue to get to the other side. If she was on a dolly I could rotate her sideways and be able to get down to business.
Thanks for all your help. I have already learned a ton reading this forum and can use all the help I can get.
Trey
I am going to try to clean up the section I have pulled to see if it has been glassed and poke around a little more. It is pretty easy to see why I was having handling issues at more that 1/2 throttle. I am lucky I didn't hit a wave an take this girl to the bottom. I can't believe the last owner used this boat on Lake Michigan.
I just placed an order for Don Danenberg's second book which appears to cover bend ribs. Any advice on how to get the replacement ribs in and to match the existing? Is there a way to slide the new rib in next to the existing to get the right profile and then when it cools remove the old and slide the new one over and fasten?
I will send more pictures and info as I get rolling. Before I can go much further I need to take the motor off and put her on a dolly so I can manuever her around my shop. Right now the prop touches the back wall of my shop and the tongue of the trailer is 2" from the door so I need to sneak under the bow and over the tongue to get to the other side. If she was on a dolly I could rotate her sideways and be able to get down to business.
Thanks for all your help. I have already learned a ton reading this forum and can use all the help I can get.
Trey
One other item. When I mentioned that the bilge is dry I should have been more specific. When I peaked thru the opening in the floor back by my bilge pump, the bilge is dry. I get a feeling that somewhere,forward of the small opening in the floor, the bottom has been caulked to the framework thus creating a nice place to hold water.
You have two problems one is a bent keel and the other is ribs that have been cut short.
Does the boat not leak at all? Probably a sign of a huge amount of 5200!!!!!!! But maybe not.
My approach would be to turn your boat bottom side up and remove the first two or three lapstrakes on both sides. Remove the keel and replace it with a wider one. The ribs could be srarfed.
Cheap easy way would be to laminate another piece of oak over the butt joint, not pretty but functional.
You can see what I did with my 1960 Cruiser 202 16 at www.aerialimaging.net/john
Does the boat not leak at all? Probably a sign of a huge amount of 5200!!!!!!! But maybe not.
My approach would be to turn your boat bottom side up and remove the first two or three lapstrakes on both sides. Remove the keel and replace it with a wider one. The ribs could be srarfed.
Cheap easy way would be to laminate another piece of oak over the butt joint, not pretty but functional.
You can see what I did with my 1960 Cruiser 202 16 at www.aerialimaging.net/john
-
Rodney Syverson
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:52 pm
- Location: Ada, Minnesota
Treys:
I recently completed a full restoration both cosmetically and structurally on a 62 Sea Lancer. With perseverance and patience anyone can do a superior job. You are on the right track by ordering Danenberg's books and I would suggest you read those over and over. Dan's advice is right on the mark in my opinion. You might want to check out some other books in Fine Woodworking on the subject of Steam Bending Wood.
The more information the better.
You will have to remove the sister keelson's and it sounds like you should replace your keel as well. Given that these structural components are 40 plus years in a less than ideal environment for wood, you will likely see they have deteriorated. These are structural backbone components as well as the ribs or frames and you want these members strong.
Replacing the ribs completely is not all that difficult once the sister keelson's and gunwhales have been removed. I removed my keelson and glass blasted all the old varnish from inside the hull. I then bed a new keelson in the center with dimensions a little bit larger than the original.
I then removed and replaced the ribs about 10-12 at a time. Simply done by steaming the appropriate time and quickly forcing into its destined position and driving down tight to the keelson and securing. Once you get the hang of it I suspect you will do as I did and replace all the frames irregardless of how good they look. I could take my old frames and snap them like toothpicks with very little effort. Take one out and try for yourself. Then try the same on a new equally dimensioned piece of 1/4 sawn white Oak. I think you will realize quickly what needs to be done.
My boat had been well taken care of all its years but despite that there was some deterioration of the frames adjacent to the keel and I thought I would only have to replace about 8- 10. My center Keelson and one of the cleats attached to it was also cracked. Upon removal of the frames I discovered serious degradation in the tight radius area where the bottom turns to vertical. One frame appeared perfectly normal from the top side but upon removal it was completely hollowed out leaving about a 1/8" shell with virtually no strength. It became apparent what needed to be done.
All boats are different and it is up to you to decide what will work the best for you. I just did not want to commit huge amounts of time and dollars to something that would fail and end up with a shortened lifespan of my boat. I think about that evey time I hit a large wave or wake. Anyhow something to think about. Good Luck
I recently completed a full restoration both cosmetically and structurally on a 62 Sea Lancer. With perseverance and patience anyone can do a superior job. You are on the right track by ordering Danenberg's books and I would suggest you read those over and over. Dan's advice is right on the mark in my opinion. You might want to check out some other books in Fine Woodworking on the subject of Steam Bending Wood.
The more information the better.
You will have to remove the sister keelson's and it sounds like you should replace your keel as well. Given that these structural components are 40 plus years in a less than ideal environment for wood, you will likely see they have deteriorated. These are structural backbone components as well as the ribs or frames and you want these members strong.
Replacing the ribs completely is not all that difficult once the sister keelson's and gunwhales have been removed. I removed my keelson and glass blasted all the old varnish from inside the hull. I then bed a new keelson in the center with dimensions a little bit larger than the original.
I then removed and replaced the ribs about 10-12 at a time. Simply done by steaming the appropriate time and quickly forcing into its destined position and driving down tight to the keelson and securing. Once you get the hang of it I suspect you will do as I did and replace all the frames irregardless of how good they look. I could take my old frames and snap them like toothpicks with very little effort. Take one out and try for yourself. Then try the same on a new equally dimensioned piece of 1/4 sawn white Oak. I think you will realize quickly what needs to be done.
My boat had been well taken care of all its years but despite that there was some deterioration of the frames adjacent to the keel and I thought I would only have to replace about 8- 10. My center Keelson and one of the cleats attached to it was also cracked. Upon removal of the frames I discovered serious degradation in the tight radius area where the bottom turns to vertical. One frame appeared perfectly normal from the top side but upon removal it was completely hollowed out leaving about a 1/8" shell with virtually no strength. It became apparent what needed to be done.
All boats are different and it is up to you to decide what will work the best for you. I just did not want to commit huge amounts of time and dollars to something that would fail and end up with a shortened lifespan of my boat. I think about that evey time I hit a large wave or wake. Anyhow something to think about. Good Luck
Thanks all for the comments and advice. I am quickly starting to buy into the idea of a major overhaul. I have always been curious about bending wood, sounds like now I have a great reason to learn. Over the next couple weeks I am going to continue to remove the front seats, outboard, hardware, windshied and the rest of the floor to get a full view of what we are up against. I will certainly post more pictures then.
One more quick question... Is there a way to get back in to the post from the previous Dockside Format? There was a number of post that I would like to re-read. For example there was one string on getting hardware re-chromed and I wanted to refresh my memory. I figure why I am working my way thru the tough stuff I might as well get started on some of the finishing touches!
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
Trey
One more quick question... Is there a way to get back in to the post from the previous Dockside Format? There was a number of post that I would like to re-read. For example there was one string on getting hardware re-chromed and I wanted to refresh my memory. I figure why I am working my way thru the tough stuff I might as well get started on some of the finishing touches!
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
Trey
-
Alan Sturgess
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:29 pm
- Location: Vancouver Canada
- Contact:
Hello Treys,
For the old web site try this url
http://www.thompsondockside.com/dockvie ... s5_frm.htm
From this you should be able to find most of the old postings. I don't think the search function works, but I may be wrong.
At the page you may have to hold the mouse on the first horizontal line and slide the line down on your screeen to open it so you can see most of the postings on one page. I am amazed I actually know something about this forum that Andreas does not know. I found it by clicking on an old bookmark and majically the old form appeared.
Alan
For the old web site try this url
http://www.thompsondockside.com/dockvie ... s5_frm.htm
From this you should be able to find most of the old postings. I don't think the search function works, but I may be wrong.
At the page you may have to hold the mouse on the first horizontal line and slide the line down on your screeen to open it so you can see most of the postings on one page. I am amazed I actually know something about this forum that Andreas does not know. I found it by clicking on an old bookmark and majically the old form appeared.
Alan
Alan Sturgess
'62 20ft OFFSHORE
Vancouver Canada
'62 20ft OFFSHORE
Vancouver Canada